Leslie Knope is Pawnee's biggest Swiftie
Jennifer Keishin Armstrong joins me once again to break down all things Taylor + Leslie
Hey Park It — before I dive into our season five rewatch, I thought it would be fun to spend a few weeks finishing up some posts I’ve had in my drafts these past few months. Call it a brief palette cleanser! We’ll be back to Pawnee soon enough, but before then I have something cooking about The Wizard of Oz just in time for Wicked: For Good. I have a half-baked love letter to SNL’s recent “Grind Song” sitting in my notes app. There’s a very soapboxy post about the late Christopher Hitchens’ misogynistic “Why Women Aren’t Funny” Vanity Fair piece that lit the whole “yes they fuckin are!!” fire in the late aughts / early 2010s from icons like Tina, Amy, Kristen, and Maya.
And to kick off our palette cleansing, we have a collab with none other than my good pal Jennifer Keishin Armstrong! I accidentally set this in motion back in October’s Jen Barkley post:
So here it is. The long-awaited thinkpiece about Taylor Swift x Leslie Knope. Here we go!
Jen hi! Fancy seeing you here. Thanks for joining me to talk about something very fun: Leslie Knope and Taylor Swift.
To kick us off, I’d love to know, what’s your relationship with Taylor? Are you a Swiftie?
I am! On the one hand, I know there are some more dedicated than I. On the other hand, I stayed up til midnight for the new album release, and, in fact, I am on the media team for Swifties for Hope! So I guess that’s pretty Swiftie.
Ok amazing. For me personally, I’ve been a Swiftie my whole life. I remember so vividly listening to “Teardrops on My Guitar” on the school bus on my iPod Nano and “You Belong With Me” was my first ringtone. I’m embarrassed to admit that I fell off the Taylor train a bit during her Rep era (I fell victim to the “Taylor Swift is cringe” of it all). I owe my whole life to the “Miss Americana” doc — it brought me back and she has firmly been my number one since 2020.
I love that! I actually went to the Rep tour, which once again outs me as a pretty dedicated Swiftie. I was rebelling against the rebellion! I’ve been with her really since Speak Now. I’m a lyrics person, so I’m just astounded by her talent and her output. This is a person who had a major hit with the line “Did you hear my covert narcissism I disguise as altruism like some kind of congressman?” I mean, just staggering.
What’s your favorite album?
This is such a hard question. Evermore and Folklore are astounding pieces of work, but I feel like everyone agrees on that so it’s not a very personal answer. Midnights, for me, just hit, and I know not everyone agrees on that one. But you know how sometimes you’ll listen to an album and you’re like, “Wait, is she in my brain?” That’s how that one always feels to me. I never get sick of it. I swear she was spying on me during my younger, messy dating days in New York City and wrote this album about it. “Maroon” absolutely slays me.
Oh, I’m a huge Midnights stan. I agree with that 100%.
My all-time fave album is Red, even though it has a lot of skips for me depending on my mood. But it’s just something about the nostalgia of it all. The OG Red came out when I was a freshman in high school and then Red TV came out while I was living in one of my first ever adult apartments. They’ve both just been such formative life moments — and Red’s been there through it all!
This record is so so good. I remember the first time I heard “I Knew You Were Trouble” (on MTV, when that still was a thing sometimes!). I was like OH. Also the song “Red” is one of my faves.
Ok, now let’s talk about Leslie Knope. Do we think she’s a Swiftie?
100%. I said what I said in the comments because they are so alike at a fundamental level. They are great at something they are passionate about, and they cannot stop working at it. The Eras Tour is Taylor Swift’s Harvest Festival. They are overachievers who sometimes come across as too much, but there’s no doubt that they get the job done. And I think Leslie would recognize that. She loves to admire great women, and I can so see her at the Eras Tour with Ann.
Oh definitely. I totally agree with that. It’s like that line in “Life of a Showgirl” - “I’m married to the hustle.” Leslie’s the epitome of married to the hustle.
I sort of think Leslie would be a defender of Showgirl. I think she’d like the fun poppiness and that Taylor is in love.
It’s also eternally crazy to me, in the context of Parks, that the Harvest Festival is — in my opinion — the greatest thing Leslie ever does. It’s her magnum opus and I feel like you may agree with me on that. It’s obviously the catalyst that propels the rest of her political career forwards, but it’s just wild that it comes in season 3!
Absolutely! Does that mean Taylor is only in season 3 of her career, having just finished Eras? :) Then again, it does kind-of match up, since soon afterward Leslie starts getting serious with Ben and then they get married.
I’m so curious what Leslie’s favorite album would be.
Ooh, this is an interesting one. I actually think she’d tend toward the earlier albums because they reflect more of that small town/suburban life that would be very much like Pawnee. Plus Leslie is a romantic, and those are Taylor’s most swooningly optimistic albums. I’m thinking maybe Fearless? “Love Story,” “White Horse,” “You Belong With Me.” Or maybe Lover, another of my favorites: She would love “The Man,” and also the more romantic tracks like “Lover” and “Paper Rings.”
What do you think?
Completely agree with all of that. Leslie’s totally a romantic about actual love, but also about small town life. I’ve never thought about Leslie being nostalgic before, but I feel like she kind of is? Which makes me agree that she’d love Debut and really anything that romanticizes things that can only happen in small towns.
Yeah I bet she was an early Swiftie. I can see her singing along with “Tim McGraw,” and definitely “Our Song,” which is another early favorite of mine.
I also think she’s a 1989 girlie. I can so imagine her and Ann rocking out to something like “Shake It Off.” I honestly can’t really imagine her listening to anything too sad of Taylor’s — like the thought of her listening to TTPD just doesn’t make sense in my brain. Unless we’re thinking back to that slew of times she’s been dumped, pre-Parks and Rec (I’m thinking about that montage when she and Ann drive back from Indianapolis and Ann’s just gotten dumped) — then I could maybe see her having a goooooood old fashioned “All Too Well” cry.
Oh god she would hate TTPD (except “I Can Do It With a Broken Heart,” which she’d appreciate as a workaholic). But publicly defend Taylor’s right to make it. But I do think she’d like “All Too Well,” which is just so universal even though it’s also so specific.
Leslie’s also obviously this champion of young girls being able to be whoever they want, which we see in the Pawnee goddesses episode. So I have to imagine that she’d really love all of the discourse surrounding girlhood and Taylor Swift.
Absolutely. Those goddesses all grew up to be Swifties, I would bet.
Here’s a question to wrap us up! Let’s imagine a world in which Taylor endorses Leslie Knope for president (which feels likely to me) and Leslie gets permission to use a TS song for her presidential campaign. What do we think that song is?
Oh god I love this fantasy. I kind-of like the idea of “The Man.” Definitely a better walk-on song than “Get on Your Feet,” though hopefully by the time she’s running for president, she’ll have a more competent campaign team who won’t book her in an ice rink.
Jen, thanks so much for joining us, as always. I think I speak for you, me, and Leslie when I tell everyone: go bump some Taylor today. It’s what Leslie Knope would want.
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